Christians Are To Give, Not Pay Tithes— Rev Goddowell Ivworin

…Says The Teachings Of Dr. Damina Changed His Life And Ministry

Rev Goddowell Ivworin of Truth Aflame International Church spoke to Oasis Magazine in this exclusive interview.
The chat was centered on Christian doctrines especially his teachings similar to that of his mentor, Dr. Abel Damina.

Read on!

Let’s meet you, Sir.
I am Rev Goddowell Ivworin, the Senior Pastor of Truth Aflame International Church.

Okay! let’s go straight to the interview. Now we are aware that you have a relationship with Rev. (Dr) Abel Damina. Do you mind discussing your relationship with him?
Well, Dr. Abel Damina is a Father in the Faith and he is someone who has been around, preaching this gospel for almost 40 years and so he is a father. On my relationship with him, “I would say that I am his student; I am his mentee. That is what I would say because people in their age are fathers and we are children

I have visited Truth Aflame for a while and I have followed your powerful messages. But recently, we started seeing a few strange things. Before and after you met Damina, what has changed?
The truth is that my foundation where I came from such as Christ Missionary, and Voice of God Gospel Center, those are my foundations. My family is of Christ Missionary Crusader Church and that is where I grew up from. However, in ministry, I began at Voice of God Mission, now called Voice of God Gospel Center. You see, from all this time, I had this perspective of the Gospel because God spoke to me, saying “You are going to preach the gospel to all nations.” That was the voice I heard before I saw it in Scripture. I began to investigate the gospel from the very beginning and it was first explained to me in the mouth of Pastor Chris Oyakhilome. It was from one of his tapes- “Righteousness.” So it was from that I got what the gospel is. While I was in Voice of God Mission, my message was about the gospel, but I did not have a deep knowledge of the gospel. Nonetheless, I have a definition of the word “gospel” and those things guided me. I discern messages to preach and back then I prayed a prayer of death for my enemies and evil people. In those times I was praying those prayers, but deep inside me, it was not connecting even though I was having testimonies. When I prayed, people would say my uncle died or one witch confessed. We can just be in the service a person will come out and say someone just called now and confessed. So, they looked at me as a killer; a Pastor who can kill. However, something kept telling me the work is not to condemn, the work is to save. So, I have been seeking, reading and searching. I don’t think there is any book of any of the fathers in the Faith that I don’t have. Be it those of Bishop Oyedepo. Seven years ago I had all Oyedpeo’s books. I even have some books by some foreign ministers like Mike Murdock- I have all their books. One day, I came in contact with a book by Andrew Wormack, which was given to me by a friend of mine, Dr. Zoe. I started to go through that book and I could understand the gospel gradually. Thereafter, I went to the market and bought all his books and I started to read all of them until I came in contact with Dr Darmina on Facebook. I saw their school of ministry in Lagos. I travelled down to Lagos and stayed for five days. It was Dr. Damina and Pastor Chris Olayinka who were teaching in that meeting. Pastor Chris Olayinka is deep, very deep in this gospel of Christ. It was through Dr Damina that I knew him. I was in that school for five days it was a turnaround, and when I came back from that school I was transformed. That was how our church started to experience what we call transition. I decided to transition from the general gospel into the gospel of truth, which is the gospel of Christ, the messages that explain Christ in detail. I decided to transition and we are still in the process of transitioning.

I am still tempted to ask about those things you brought from that training and found out that you want people to know.
I found out that ministry is the message; it is not all about prophesying or casting out devils, or money, crowds as we used to do it. We were focused then on casting out devils and making sure that people gathered. However, when I went through that school, I found out that ministry primarily is the message. I looked at Jesus Christ, what did he give to His Apostles? It was the message. The Spirit that they received was for them to be able to preach the message. So, that was what I captured. When God gave us this ministry, Truth Aflame, God said to me that this work should not be built on miracles, but it should be built on His word. There is a difference between hearing the voice and understanding the processing of that voice that you heard. So, that school helped me to process the voice I heard that produced the name Truth Aflame International Church. That is the thing I captured. It is based on that thing that other things started falling into place

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So, we are going to dissect some of these messages. I know you to be one of the reigning prophets in town. So, are you saying you are not paying attention to that anymore?
The prophetic actually increased. It became more expressive and now, has a direction. We now have an actual reason for the gifting and we are manifesting the Spirit of the gifting in line with the mind of the Spirit. I would say that it is even now that the gifting is deeper, better and greater and I can say that people are already enjoying the gifting at this moment.

Let’s look at some specific things that have been said around town; the number one thing is that Dr. Damina does not believe in tithe. There are times I have said a few things about that online. Are you against tithing? Is tithing anti-gospel?
I don’t believe that Dr Damina is against tithing, because I have read his book on tithing. He only explained the legalism of tithing in the scripture. The legalism of tithing no longer exists. For example, people say that if you do not tithe you are cursed or if you don’t tithe you will go to hell or if you don’t tithe you will perish. These and many such are the legalities of tithing. Those legalities are no longer in the scriptures because we are no longer under the curse. The curse has been broken and so we cannot begin to pay tithe because tithe can no longer be paid, it is given. The source of tithe has to do with giving and nobody forced Abraham to do that. It was his own choice based on the culture where he was coming from because his people normally do it. So, when he came in contact with God, saw what God had done for him and he decided to give God the ten per cent through a man called Melchizedek of all the spoils as a way of thanking God for saving him. So, this ten percent was a borrowed culture and when he came to the time of Moses that was where legalism came into it. I don’t think Dr. Damina is against people given tithe. He said that the New Testament’s giving is beyond ten percent. The Apostles who are the foundation of Christianity taught us to give sacrificially. And when you are teaching sacrificial giving the ten percent is actually for children.

In Truth Aflame Church’s Sunday service, is there a time when people are called upon to give their tithe?
Yes, we do that. We preach against the legalism of tithing and before now I have not told anyone that if you don’t tithe you are under a curse. We do give tithe but no time is arranged for tithe, like we do give offering, people give tithe.

So you are not one of the people who preach against tithing?
Yes we do not preach against tithing, rather we preach against the legality of tithing.

So in your own case, how do you make people give their tithe? I know a passage in the Bible – Hebrews 7 and that is what I have been standing on. So, how do you do that?
In our preaching, we don’t talk about tithing, we talk about giving. We talk about why people give the ten percent and that is explained by Abraham because Hebrew 7 does not explain that. So, we don’t go there. We end it with Abraham’s action. So, it is the responsibility of the believer to give. But, I encourage people to give even more than ten percent.

So were there tithe cards before now?
Yes, there are still tithe cards and there have always been tithe cards before now.

There is the big issue about going to hell. You people say that a Christian cannot lose his salvation once he is saved.
The statement “once saved is forever saved” is not a Bible language. It has a language that is given to it and it is called Eternal Redemption. Hebrews 7 talks about Eternal redemption and Eternal salvation, Eternal life or everlasting life. So, where does that bring into the explanation? I don’t actually use it. I believe when you are saved, you are saved.

Is it possible for a Christian to lose his salvation?
No, you don’t. What are you losing? Perhaps, it is only when you don’t understand what you received from the beginning then you can talk about losing it. What you received from the beginning cannot be lost. It is like telling me that I can lose the blood of my father because what I received from birth was the blood of my father. I cannot lose the DNA of my father. Even if my father says I am no longer his son, he can’t remove me from his DNA. For example, in the Bible, the word “son” was not removed from the “prodigal son”, despite his action. He was still a son. So, wherever he “prodigalizes” to (If that word is in the dictionary) the son is still in his DNA. Hence what I received at the beginning was not losable.

For instance, when a Christian is born again and suddenly he becomes a fornicator and he does not want to come to church and not identifying himself with a group in the church. What is the fate of that Christian?
The Christian remains where he is. That is why I said salvation needs to be understood by the church. Salvation is not an agreement, salvation is not a confession, and salvation is one way in, no way out. He said I give you eternal life. Eternal life is not what we requested for, we didn’t pray for it, we didn’t beg for it. It was brought to us as a gift and we believe it and when we believe it, it entered to preserve us. The word “salvation” Is from the Greek word “Soteria”. That word is used for a warrior who went to get and preserve the land. It is not just a word for bringing somebody out of danger but it is bringing to preserve. And what did you use to preserve in the spirit? When you read Ephesians 1vs 13 and 14 “when you believe the gospel of salvation, I Will give you the spirit as a seal and vs 14 says up to the day of redemption.” What we received is concrete. It’s a life and it is forever. Even that person who works into fornication and out of the congregation of the believer, he’s working in the foolishness of his mind. But he remained saved but if he died in that position, he died in Christ and he is still in Christ. The scriptures said in First Corinthians 3vs 15 that such a person’s salvation is as of by fire because his work is cursed and there is no reward for him because of fire. The word “fire” there is regret meaning in that life he will regret forever because his case will be worse than somebody who goes to hell fire. Because hell fire is an eternal consumption. But this man will see other of his mates in the place of God, in the place of glory but he will be empty.

But the scriptures say after someone dies, judgment follows, but you have said another which I never heard. Are you saying he is going to regret it? Where is such going to regret it; in heaven?
Yes in eternal life.

With the way you are saying this, you mean once a believer is born again and starts doing all sought of things like the way Jehovah’s Witness teaches that there is no hellfire, like the Mountain of Fire prays that all my enemies fall down and die and others like that. How does this sound? Looks like an extreme to me.
I want to first attempt on that Hebrew 9 that says it is appointed once unto a man to die and after then is judgment. You will clearly know that this judgment has already been taken by Jesus.

Is that so? I totally disagree though.
Yes, I want you to go and read that scripture clearly. That place was talking about Jesus. He took that judgment. It is appointed for man to die once. Jesus Christ came to die for that judgment. So death is what Jesus Christ came to accomplish. That appointment is no longer existing. Verse 26 -27 -28 said He’s returning to those who have received Him. So there is no longer death for those who have received the death of Jesus Christ. Hebrews 2:40 said they are of flesh and blood and by death he might’ve destroyed him who has the power of death which is the devil and who through the fear of death has been bondage in their lifetime. Jesus was judged so that no man can ever be judged. That is why in John 5vs 24 he said he that believes in my word does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life. Hence, no more condemnation and that is why the church world feels like if we say this to the people, the people will go wrong. You are not their saviour. I cannot save them, I can’t keep their salvation. So, you are not the one who saved them and commanded that that’s what you should preach to them. You know there is a message Jesus gave to the church to preach. But we are afraid to tell them that. What we receive is a life of Christ and that life is to be lived on the face of the earth. You are the light of this world, let your light so shine. If you don’t shine, the light doesn’t change you from being light. It is just that you refused to shine the light and there is no reward. Nothing changes you but you are expected to shine the light that is what we call spiritual growth. Paul actually said in Romans 12 verse 2 to renew your mind. You are no longer conformed to this world and that is what people define as salvation, but no, that is a process after salvation. Salvation is when you come into Christ but in Christ, you begin to grow. When you begin to grow, you show the life of Christ. So that brother who goes away from light is not shining his light and he’s not pleasing his saviour. And on the judgment day which is not the judgment of the world but the judgment of the believer.

Where would that be?
2 Corinthians 5vs 11 yes the manifestation from the sons of God. when the sons of God are manifested, they will be judged and he said your bad work and your good work will be judged.

We just talked about heaven and it seems Dr Damina said we are not going to heaven.
Yes, we are in heaven already. Ephesians 2vs 6 says we are sitting together in Christ now in Heaven. The word heaven has been misunderstood.